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[Tabitha Jonson]

How are you getting on with week 2? Any thoughts about Active Listening? Has anyone looked at the activity below?

“Dad! My lego tower broke!!

1. It’s ok. Lego can just go back together.
2. Oh that sounds really frustrating.
3. I’ve had enough of problems with lego. It’s going away in the cupboard!

“Mum, Sam wouldn’t let me play soccer with them today. They’re mean!”
1. Yes that is mean. I wouldn’t want to play with them anyway if I were you.
2. Perhaps next time you could ask them why. Maybe they just had enough kids already.
3. You sound really upset about that. You really wanted to play? If you were the child, think about how you would feel with each response.

[Najla]

I want to try to practice this more. I am the parent who threatens to put the toy in the cupboard because I can’t stand to hear the crying about it! Anukash, my 4 1/2 old son especially gets very frustrated and tends to give up because of his frustration. I really want to help him though I am not sure that empathy fully solves the problem (though maybe i need how to learn to do it better!). Once he gets set off, it is difficult to calm him. We got in a “power struggle” over watching a movie in the car and he cried loudly the entire car ride home, screaming that he wanted the movie, though I said no and empathized how frustrating it was for him that I said no. I found my nerves getting so on edge that I could not even drive. I had to pull over. When I did, I tried to calm and then got of the car to try to connect with Anukash. No amount of empathy or hugs would do it as he was overtired. Ultimately, he just screamed the entire car ride home. I did not know how to handle it.

[Wendy Andrews]

It’s fantastic you want to practice Active Listening more Najla and I hear how difficult it is for you, which makes what you managed to do in the car so much more heroic!
There are two things that are increasing the difficulty level here, the first being what goes on inside you, hearing the crying. This is time to Connect with yourself. Whether you use a journal, or a therapist, or mindfulness, it’s good to inquire within with questions like, ‘what would have happened to me when I cried as an infant/toddler/older child?’ ‘Where do I feel it in my body when Anukash cries or screams?’ ‘What do I FEEL like doing in those moments?’ (it can be good to vent somewhere what the raw urges are, as it helps to not carry them out in reality.) ‘Did I ever see my parents cry?’ ‘What are the general messages I received about the act of crying as I was growing up?’

All of that will help you get to the place of understanding on a physical level the value of crying healing tears. Science shows now that stress hormones actually leave the body via tears!

The second thing that adds to the challenge is that, if crying has been actively DIScouraged since birth, there will be a bit of a backlog for him to get out. If the birth was tricky or there was medical stuff involved afterward etc then even bigger cries can be expected!

The good news is, it’s all completely recoverable and he is obviously feeling the safety has increased as he is going for it in a big way! If he starts crying over what you consider ‘little things’ in the next while, it helps to be aware he is probably attaching his ‘backlog of emotional tension’ to things that are manageable in HIS world, like his cookie being the wrong shape. It’s fine to keep it about the cookie, offering empathy for it, without mentioning what you think it’s really about, and listening to the tears as much as you can. It doesn’t make sense to push past the point of where you can feel kindness and warmth though, as that gets picked up on….better at that point to distract and move on, until another opportunity presents itself and you can warmly listen some more….guaranteed it will keep happening as long as there is the backlog there.

But it WILL ease eventually and you’ll find longer and longer periods of a generally sunny, cuddly, connected child.

[Claire Eccleston]

Hi, I love to receive active listening. I love the feeling of connection I have with my kids when i do it with them, however sometimes I find it really challenging when I feel under resourced, with my own back log, stress, listening to others all day etc. this highlights to me the need to feel up my own reserves in order to have the juice to mother well. Doing more active listening with the kids highlights my grief that my partner chooses not to actively listen.
I also feel at a loss as to how to actively listen to my 12 yr daughter when she seems to not want to talk. i may say ‘ how are you doing , you seem sad today ,or you seem frustrated ‘ and she often will say ‘im fine ‘ and go back into her bedroom. sometimes I try to do reflective listening around simple things and she says ‘ i want some quiet time now’. I’m aware teenagers maybe need to disconnect and I’m not sure how to be within this. i can say ‘ oh you need space , or some quiet time’ but this is what she seems to need alot of the time. she is becoming very reserved and I feel at a loss as to how to connect with her. Often when we try to connect the busy 2 yr old is needing attention also. I feel lonely sometimes in my home. The teenagers are in their rooms with the door closed ( often plugged in) and my parter is plugged in to. So I am grappling with my need for connection and their need for autonomy and quiet time. – I think my question is – how to connect with someone , or apply active listening when they dont want to engage and talk. i know I can just say ‘ i see you need some quiet time, im here to listen when your ready but i feel concerned she will just quietly become more and more insular and withdrawn.
Thanks again for the wonderful information and the space to share.

[Wendy Andrews]

I hear your concerns Claire. I’m posting a couple of articles that may have info that help you think about this important topic of connection, in relation to Active Listening, especially with teens and pre-teens.

This first one is a great overview:
http://www.handinhandparenting.org/article/supporting-our-adolescent-children/

and this one contains info on what Special Time looks like for teens:

How Special Time Works with Teens

[Wendy Andrews]

It could also be worth exploring feelings from your past that this scenario, of everyone in their bedrooms, could be tapping into for you. Did you ever feel disconnected from your parents? Was it hard to get their full attention? Or was it impossible? What was daily life typically like for you? Did you all have times of conversation, laughter and connection? Did you feel unified and part of a team or more like everyone was in their own bubble?

I really admire what you are doing, with children of such different ages. Has 12yo got to express much of what it was like for her to have a younger sibling arrive?

Feel free to explore as many or none of these questions as works for you. For me, they’re useful ways into things that might not be clearly laid out in front of me but which are affecting me daily.

[Michelle Carnes]

Wow This is hard! I find myself doing the active listening but I expect it to work sooner then it is and I get impatient. I find myself thinking ” man kid, I am really trying hard here to do things differently and make things better for us and you are not cooperating”. I know it will take lots of practice for me. I also am aware in my body how much better it feels to say to myself ” How can I help?” and come from the Active Listening approach and empathy then all the yelling I was trained to do before. I think about how my childhood would have been if these techniques were used on me and know how much work I have had to do on myself over the years to heal a lot of childhood pain. Seeing the fear in my children’s eyes when I yell or slam doors has been heartbreaking and I am beyond grateful for this resource, you all and the opportunity to do it differently. So far in just a little over a week of trying and knowing there are options I feel relieved. I feel hopeful. Thank you!

[Wendy Andrews]

We’re right here with you Michelle, cheering you on

[Claire Eccleston]

Thanks Wendy , you have hit the nail on the head ! When I grew up I was the oldest of 4 . The younger ones all had friends the same age loving next door , I was excluded from their games and mum and dad were working a lot. I had to be there to look after everyone but they were often off busy playing . Gee ,this course is bringing up so much , the greif and unmet needs of years past . Thank you for the articles . I do try to spend time with the big kids , nimai is easy but mirabelle often misses out due to Felix’s demands. I will try asking her about the changes for her with her brother coming along . I feel sad she misses out but mainly I worry for her and want her to feel cared about . I wanted to book her in with a beloved homeopath who she has worked with before but she didn’t want to . It’s hard trying to create the space to give her the time I would like to .we had planned for Sunday afternoons – I will endeavour to get this back on track .
Thanks again

[Wendy Andrews]

Claire, as an eldest of 4 too, I really relate to what you’re describing. Funny how you can feel lonely in a family of six people! When you say, ‘I had to be there to look after everyone’ reminds me very much of that sense of responsibility from a ridiculously early age, so much so that I never really even ‘felt’ like a child. You try to please your parents by being responsible and ‘in charge’, to ease their burden and receive some attention for ‘being good’ and you try and please your siblings and keep them safe. It can feel like a no win situation because you can’t please both siblings and parents at the same time! This is a very tricky situation and I imagine your current situation, of trying to meet the needs of both older and younger siblings would be very triggering of that old dynamic on some level (if it was there for you, I could be projecting my own stuff!) I hope you find some time and space for yourself to offload the grief that is coming up with a big, cleansing cry.

[Michelle Carnes]

Help! Rough night tonight for Sawyer (almost 4) and me. Out of the blue he hits me on the leg. I said ouch do not do that it hurts. Then he stuck out his tongue. I said no thank you Sawyer. Then he knocks over his and his sisters little chairs. I said Sawyer you seem really upset what is wrong. He ignores me and starts to draw on the table with a marker and I yelled ENOUGH ( I just couldn’t do it anymore) and he started to cry. I find myself resorting back to the yelling because it makes whatever is happening stop but I also know it hurts my kids. Please help me understand where he might be coming from? I know my thoughts were calm at first and when it just kept continuing I felt myself getting angry and then calm, then angry and calm and then I just resorted back to the old way. Very shortly after I yelled I said I was sorry for yelling and asked him if he wanted a hug. He said no and kept his distance. About 10 minutes later he was in my lap. When we laid down to go to bed he broke down crying and said Jordan ( a kid in his class) hit him in the head today with a shoe. He was wailing and I just held him and he finally fell asleep. Open to any input, comments and support. This is common for us just the events are slightly different. Thank you! Also is this the forum where I ask for this sort of help or do I private message one of the teachers?

[Wendy Andrews]

When an off-track behaviour comes out of the blue, Michelle, it helps to bring a physical limit to our child, rather than just our words. So, along with, ‘I can’t let you do that’, gently holding his arm is what will catch the intense feelings causing the lashing out to burst out in tears or a tantrum. If you don’t catch it at that point, you’ll find, as you did, that they will keep searching for the limit by doing more and more ‘off-track’ things (another way we see it is if you give them something they’ve requested and then they change their minds and NOTHING satisfies them).
We can be sure that SOMETHING has happened, some fear during their day but in that moment, it doesn’t make sense to ask for details. Their brain is in fight or flight brainstem survival mode, where language doesn’t factor in. Once they’ve had a big, loud, tearful, sweaty release of tears and frustration, which switches the brain back to the pre-frontal rational thinking, reasoning lobe, THEN they may well be able to verbalise something that happened earlier.
So you got there, you did listen when he started crying and later, when he’d got the bulk of it out, he was able to talk with you about it. The only thing to do differently is recognise, ‘hmmm, something’s obviously up’ and provide that gentle, physical limit, with warmth and caring. Of course, this takes practice and doing our own work that will help extend our reaction time so that WE ourselves don’t immediately jump to our own fight/flight survival mode when our child lashes out. The more we are heard about our own childhood hurts, and practice mindfulness, the more we can grow that reaction time. You’re on track Mama!

[Wendy Andrews]

Plus, I think it’s fine here. The Active Listening is setting the limit, (holding him gently, saying ‘I can’t let you do that’), and listening to the emotional release, putting aside your own feelings and judgements, then stating the limit again, seeing if it allows more feelings to come out.

[Tabitha Jonson]

Hi Michelle,

Yes this is a good forum to ask questions and so on. You can start a new thread with your questions if you’d like.

What kids often do is act out their upsets. Finally at bedtime he could let you know what was upsetting him and have a good cry. That is great as he is getting all his stress and upset out through that big cry with you there.

I am guessing the earlier hitting and drawing on tables and so on was him indicating he was feeling upset. It would be super helpful if they’d just come up and tell us, ‘I’ve had a tough day and need a good cry’. 😉

We have more on this is next weeks material but one way of helping bring these upset feelings to the surface and help them release them through tears or rage is to set a loving limit.

Great you are focusing on Centering / Calming yourself.

In this instance when he hit you, I would crouch down to his level, be ready to block any more hits and say something exactly like what you said ,”Sawyer, you seem really upset. I can’t let you hit but I really want to hear how upset you are.”

If he did carry on with the out of sorts behaviour I would physically stop him. Holding the chairs as he went to tip them or the pen (if you’re quick enough). If they are set on hurting others or damaging things I will hold them gently so they can’t cause damage.

“Honey I can’t let you hurt me. I’ll keep us safe. You are sooo upset?”

This limit to the actions while being really warm and accepting the feelings helps the feelings come out in a big cry or a tantrum.

Does this make sense? It can be a bit different to what we have experienced.

So the limit is there to keep everyone safe and help the icky feelings come out. He already knows none of those things are ok and when he’s got the feelings out he won’t want to do them.

So lovely to hear you just sitting with him and him having the chance to tell you about getting hit and getting all his upset out with a big cry.

[Wendy Andrews]

Another option, Michelle, is to be able to decide, ‘hmmm, he’s got something going on for him, I’ll see if a bit of laughter loosens things up’. It could look like this, ‘Why you…..’ in an exaggerated, cartoon like upset voice, and chasing him, perhaps tripping, not quite getting to him and seeing if he is running and laughing. Perhaps you could catch him and give a good old snuggle, that could turn into wrestling/roughhousing, where he laughs a lot, has to fight hard to beat you but does eventually, after a big, sweaty go. Of course, if he doesn’t laugh, just stop and move on. Big laughter is a fabulous way to release big fear and even the sweatiness from wrestling is releasing it too.

These options come easily to some people and not to others. Again, the more you offload your own childhood stresses, the easier the playful approach becomes (and the more likely you are to even THINK of it in that moment when he’s lashed out).

It’s worth noting, it doesn’t really matter which option you go for, whether the warm, gentle, physical limit, OR the vigorous laughter. Whether the feelings release through tears or laughter, it is the release that matters (and the more we heal ourselves, the less the concept of ‘tears’ and ‘crying’ bothers us because it’s not touching on our own childhood, unhealed pain any more, it just becomes a beautiful part of the human healing process. Having been releasing my own backlog for many years, I can hear a child crying nowadays and think, ‘go for it, little one’, knowing they are getting out some big emotional tensions that will ease their pain….of course, it’s much, much more effective when a caregiver is right there with them, lovingly giving them warm attention while they cry. I think I managed to keep my thinking pretty sharp growing up because I DID cry easily….I did most of it by myself in bed, so it got some isolation stuff attached to it but it still helped).

[Michelle Carnes]

Thank you so much Tabitha and Wendy for all the great insights and additional tools.

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